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once upon a time in the projects :: PORCH-SITTERS UNION local #39 :: trick bag... :: sun people in a land of snow :: CHINUA ACHEBE vs. Joseph Conrad : what's what?

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Topic: CHINUA ACHEBE vs. Joseph Conrad : what's what? (Read 865 times)

neil
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CHINUA ACHEBE vs. Joseph Conrad : what's what?
« Thread Started on Dec 20, 2007, 10:30pm »

excerpted from my blog [which started the whole thing] :

BEGIN EXCERPT

since it was published in 1902, "Heart of Darkness"
is now in the Public Domain.

the entire text may be read online
or downloaded.

online reader :
http://www.gutenberg.org/catalog/world/readfile?fk_files=216335&pageno=1

online audio :
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/9343
or
http://www.gutenberg.org/etext/20270

vvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvvv
"Heart of Darkness"
read by
Kristin Luoma
Chapter 1 Part 1 - 00:44:10
http://www.gutenberg.org/files/20270/mp3/20270-01.mp3
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Conrad

CHINUA ACHEBE vs Joseph Conrad

In 1975, Chinua Achebe published an essay, 'An Image of Africa:
Racism in Conrad's "Heart of Darkness",' wherein he labeled Joseph
Conrad a "thoroughgoing racist." This essay has since sparked a
storm of controversy regarding Conrad's legacy. Achebe's point of
view, now the single most famous piece of criticism on Joseph
Conrad, is that "Heart of Darkness" cannot be considered "a great
work of art" because it is "a novel which celebrates...
dehumanization, which depersonalizes a portion of the human
race."*

Referring to Conrad as a "talented, tormented man", Achebe drew
on several instances of racism in the writings of Conrad, in which
the author derided "niggers" as variously "unreasoning", "savage",
and "inscrutable". Conrad, for his part, has had many passionate
defenders since the publication of Achebe's criticism; often, Achebe
has been criticized for disregarding the "historical context" of
Conrad's work, in defense of Conrad's reputation, or in defending
the extant value of his work.

from
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Conrad

*if this is the heart of Achebe's logic, then it is flawed ...
the same logic would require that any artistic work achieved as a
result of a commission from the Medici** family could not be
considered "a great work of art" for EXACTLY the same reasons.
either a given logic applies across the board, or it doesn't apply at
all. Achebe apparently wants to qualify any artwork in terms
of it's political correctness ... the shallowness of this thinking
should be obvious. since this quote is only a fragment of a
sentence [or a couple of sentences] ... i genuinely hope that
he has more to offer than this.

**
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medici

REF :
article on "An Image of Africa"

REF :
the complete text of Achebe's essay -
http://social.chass.ncsu.edu/wyrick/debclass/achcon.htm

REF :
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chinua_Achebe

CHINUA ACHEBE
Born Albert Chinualumogu Achebe on November 16, 1930,
is a Nigerian novelist, poet and critic. He is best known for
his first novel, "Things Fall Apart" (1958), which is the
most widely-read book in modern African literature.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Things_Fall_Apart

this is going to make things spicy.
1 - nobody tells me what to think ... my mind works quite well, thank you.
2 - i will read Conrad's novel & Achebe's critique and decide
.........what parts of each [if any] may be worth keeping.
3 - some might call my attitude arrogance. i say such people
.........are timid and unwilling to express their convictions.
4 - bring it on ... the judge and jury are ready.

END OF EXCERPT

i thought i would yank this out of my bloggumz, which is
read by maybe 1 1/2 people on a regular basis, and toss
it out into a more open community of ideas.

1 - is ANYONE familiar with BOTH these works?
......"familiar" meaning having actually READ
both works within the last 10 years and compared them
objectively. disciples of Joseph Conrad need not apply.
disciples of Chinua Achebe need not apply. only interested
here in opinions which follow from a strongly independent
intellect ... no spoon-fed parroting, puhleeze.

[all necessary references to online versions of the complete
text of both works will be found in the blog excerpt above.
how cool is that?]

2 - i have just started "Heart of Darkness". it is only 70 pages
long ... maybe have it finished by saturday if i read all day
tomorrow. whatever. ima read the novel first, then the essay.
it is only just and fair to compare the two in their chronological
positions.

3 - in the meantime, anyone who feels that they have a good
handle on the questions being asked here; by all means feel
free to set it off. i intend to avoid this thread until i have read
both works. maybe by then some stuff will be percolating.

4 - don't be afraid of upsetting me. i don't have an agenda. i
just happened to pick out a book at the library that is supposedly
one of the pivotal classics of 20th century fiction. then in the process
of getting a little backstory [backstory is nice], i found out about
this beef that Achebe had with Conrad. this is also useful, if only
for the fact that i have now learned about Achebe ... a very famous
and strategic figure in modern African literature of whom i was
previously ignorant.

5 - okay. so. don't be skeered. but please please please don't
post in this thread if you are not truly familiar with BOTH works
and are able to offer something in the way of substantial
observations beyond ... "Conrad is a racist" or "Achebe is a loon."
thanks.

« Last Edit: Dec 20, 2007, 10:32pm by neil »

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upfromsumdirt
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Re: CHINUA ACHEBE vs. Joseph Conrad : what's what?
« Reply #1 on Dec 22, 2007, 8:22am »

ive read 'things fall apart' and its a great (if not a difficult) book
to read... im not familiar with the other book, tho ive heard of it.
achebe's book is STEEPED in traditional attitudes that have been
criticized by other cultures/philosophies/etc... so maybe he was
just initially deflecting criticism away from himself...
however, that doesnt mean that conrad is not a racist...
nor does any negative stereotyping in his book automatically
make him a racist.

achebe's criticism is rightly fueled by historical attitudes as generated by black oppression and white supremacy, he is
speaking as a member of the injured party no differently than
jewish scholars would condemn any german writer who glorified
nazi sensibilities...

there is no such thing as wrong or right in this issue because
both men are both, it just depends upon the observer's political,
social and/or artistic leanings... our criticism or approval of either
conrad or achebe is more a reflection of our own personal or
professional takes on life activated by the subject matter of
those two books.

achebe's criticism might seem out of place if taken solely from
the position of artistic merit, but achebe is not operating from
that point of view. he should be able to separate the two, but
he has chosen not to. its no offense that he's chosen not to do it.
traditionally, racism is easily hidden behind what's considered
'white privilege' - it equates to black folks who defend their use
of the word 'nigga' while expecting white folks not to understand
the double-standard.

anyway, criticism of either 'heart of darkness' or 'things fall apart' or any other piece of creative writing is completely expected and natural... creative fiction that doesnt generate some sort of emotion or sympathy is really quite worthless... people should feel connected with some element within it.

and thats my word.

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neil
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Re: CHINUA ACHEBE vs. Joseph Conrad : what's what?
« Reply #2 on Dec 23, 2007, 11:17am »

that's perfect, man.
you're so smart, it's disgusting.

thanks so much for taking the time
to put these well-rounded thoughts
down for me and/or others to chew on.

i haven't finished HoD yet, but the ideas
that had been brewing in my brain of brains
were along the lines of your logic ... though
i guarantee i wouldn't have put it as elegantly
as you did.

props.

where's the "daps and hand-claps" emoticon?

Dirty dawg :
Darin was BLOWN AWAY by his CD art.
his mouth was open so long, i thought
he was going to start droolin. you rock.
or funk. or R&B. or jazz. like that.
~ ya fan fo' life.

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